Plato and Rhetoric 427-346 BC (81yrs.)PlatoPlato on RhetoricThe Gorgias (385 BC)The Gorgias Attacking RhetoricThe Gorgias ContinuedSocrates/Plato & Gorgias Round OneSocrates/Plato & Gorgias Round One ContinuedSocrates/Plato & Polus Round TwoSocrates/Plato & Polus Round Two: True and Sham ArtsSocrates/Plato & Callicles Round ThreeMajor Claims in GorgiasThe Phaedrus (367 BC)The Phaedrus ContinuedSlide 15Phaedrus ConSlide 17Part Two conSlide 19The Phaedrus & the SoulPhaedrus Part ThreeThe Phaedrus & RhetoricThe Phaedrus (Comments/Criticisms)Slide 24Plato and Rhetoric427-346 BC (81yrs.)Life son of wealthy & influential Athenian parentsbegan his philosophical career as a student of Socrateswhen Socrates died, Plato traveled to Egypt and Italy, studied with students of Pythagoras, and spent several years advising the ruling family of Syracuse.Eventually, returned to Athens & established his own school of philosophy at the Academy.PlatoFor students, Plato tried to pass on the heritage of a Socratic style of thinking The written dialogues on which his enduring reputation rests also serve both of these aims. Primary Focus: Attack SophistsPlato on RhetoricThree works on Rhetoric: The Apology (we’re not reading)The Gorgias--attack on Sophistic practice of rhetoricThe Phaedrus--development of a true rhetoricThe Gorgias (385 BC)An early workMajor ideas implied or statedDialectic nature of truth “remembered” in dialogue among expertsRhetoric is pre-selected communication in order to defend opinionsThe GorgiasAttacking RhetoricThree rounds of speechesFirst round: Gorgias and SocratesRhetoric’s nature and usesDefinition--is rhetoric a true art?Second round: Polus and SocratesRhetoric is just a knack for creating persuasive speeches that lack foundation in justice/truthThird round: Challicles and SocratesPursuit of power without knowledge of justice perpetuates injusticeThe GorgiasContinuedTopicsWhat is the nature of rhetoric?Does rhetoric by its very nature tend to mislead?What happens to a society when persuasion is a basis for law and justice? ThemeThe basis of justiceDoxa (mere public opinion) vs Episteme (true knowledge)Socrates/Plato & GorgiasRound OneSocrates/Plato: What is the art or techne (knowledge) rhetoric offers? (a question)Gorgias: Rhetoric is concerned with words, persuasive words.Socrates/Plato: Not a definition, because all disciplines use persuasion.Episteme (true knowledge) vs pistis (mere opinion).Socrates/Plato & GorgiasRound One ContinuedJustice involves episteme. Justice is a lofty, time consuming topic. Public is ignorant.The rhetorician, then, is not a teacher of law courts and other public gatherings as to what is right or wrong, but merely a creator of beliefs; for evidently he could never instruct so large a gathering in so short a time.Socrates/Plato & PolusRound TwoSocrates vs Polus (the colt)Polus: “Rhetoric is the greatest power in the country.”Plato: ComparisonsThe arts vs sham artsSocrates/Plato & PolusRound Two: True and Sham ArtsThe Arts of Health Body SoulMaintain: gymnastics legislationRestore: medicine justiceThe Sham Arts of Health Body SoulMaintain: make-up sophisticRestore: cookery rhetoricSocrates/Plato & CalliclesRound ThreeCallicles: Natural Justice or the rule of the intelligent over the baser.Machiavellian approach to power--gained without pursuit of or attention to justice.Major Claims in GorgiasSophistic rhetoric is misleading--designed to convince audience they’re dealing with truth when they’re really perpetuating opinionRejection of transient notion of truth (time, justice and juries)rhetoric seeks persuasion while philosophy seeks truthThe Phaedrus (367 BC)Twenty years after the Gorgiasdeals with the "nature (phusis)" of the soul”Three Major Parts separated by interludesThe Phaedrus ContinuedContent: Socrates in conversation with a young sophist studentIntellectually and physically attractiveLove: “divine madness” a “trance entered by poets”The Soul has three partsThe Phaedrus ContinuedA techne of rhetoricA true or just rhetoricPhaedrus ConPart One:The soulless speeches: Lysias' speech and Socrates' 1st speechThe definition of love Its effects on the belovedPhaedrus ConPart Two:Socrates' Second Speech: The speech on the soul nature of the soul and behavior "in heaven”1.1. The soul as principle and the image of the winged chariot1.2. Divine souls and their journey toward "what really is”1.3. Human souls and their wandering within bodiesPart Two conSocrates' Second Speech: The speech on the soul idea of beauty and its effects on embodied human souls2.1. Role of "ideas" in human life and privilege of beauty2.2. Effects of beauty on man's soul2.3. Consequences depending on which god the soul followedPart Two conSocrates' Second Speech: The speech on the soul behavior of loving and loved souls here on earth3.1. Behavior of the lover3.2. Behavior of the loved one3.3. Styles of life that may result and conclusion regarding LysiasThe Phaedrus & the SoulThe three parts (Charioteer) Loves wisdomLoves nobility and honorLoves appetite or lustsPhaedrus Part ThreeSocrates' Third Speech: Dialogue on RhetoricFrom false rhetoric to true dialecticThe dialectician and the rhetoricianFrom false dialectic to true rhetoricThe Phaedrus & RhetoricRhetoric therefore is the art of influencing soulsPsychagogia “leading souls”Know “the truth” firstAdapting to audience’s soul is the art of rhetoric--soul of love, soul of honor, soul of lustJustice is realized when the lower submits to lover of wisdom.The Phaedrus (Comments/Criticisms)The relationship of rhetoric to truthdiscover? or propagate? (mere advocacy)Create the truth?Rhetoric and Dialectic both can produce evilListen for soul--Remembering?Is this tradition or God?The Phaedrus (Comments/Criticisms)Kennedy p. 58 “Plato’s is an impractical rhetoric, . . . How can we know everyone's soul?Yet, we can know our soul “that which is most personal is also most general”Plato starts with ontology or being, thus soul talk is remembering or