The Republic Book II Begins with Glaucon arguing that Socrates has not made the case that a life of justice is superior to a life of injustice Glaucon plays devil s advocate he wants to agree with Socrates but doesn t find the arguments for justice strong enough Multiple categories of good Good for its own sake A hobby Intrinsic Value Good only for the sake of something else A job you hate Instrumental Value Good for its own sake and for the sake of something else A job you love Intrinsic and Glaucon puts justice in Instrumental Value while Socrates puts just in both Instrumental Value Intrinsic and Instrumental Value Origin of Justice Glaucon To commit an injustice is good for a person but to suffer an injustice is bad for a person The bad for suffering an injustice outweighs the good for committing an injustice Justice arises as a compromise between two people Although everyone would rather commit injustice the threat of suffering injustice is enough for everyone to agree upon rules to regulate conduct No one would ever submit to the compromise of justice if they could bring about and maintain the best case scenario for themselves Glaucon someone gained the ability to do whatever they wished and would remain undetected that person would from there forth always choose to act unjustly Ring of Gyges The Ultimate Test If Socrates wants to establish that justice is intrinsically good and injustice is intrinsically bad then he must show that justice is preferable even in the following scenario a A perfectly just person with an unjust reputation with all the punishment that comes with such a reputation with such a reputation b A perfectly unjust person with a just reputation and all the praise rewards that come Who lives the better life If we answer that the better life is the unjust person with a just reputation it is the appearance of justice rather than the reality of justice that gives someone a good life In other words justice has instrumental value only Adeimantus Addendum Do not let the just person fall back on the prospect of heavenly rewards or permit the unjust person to fear divine punishment To make the case for injustice even stronger let s stipulate the following The gods are deceived about the true nature of the two individuals just as much as everyone else There are no gods OR OR OR The gods turn out to be uninterested in human affairs The gods displeasure with the truly unjust person is fully appeased by sacrifices How will Socrates Respond Glaucon and Adeimantus having made the cases for injustice now implore Socrates to help them understand how justice can be correctly regarded as superior to injustice Socrates notes that justice and injustice are sometimes talked about as being virtues vices of the individual and sometimes as being virtues vices of the state Things are easier to see when they are larger Socrates proposes they begin their investigation into a proper understanding of justice and injustice by looking first at the political state We will be in the position to bring what we learn about justice and injustice upon the smaller harder to see case that of the individual The Reason for Political States No one is self sufficing but all of us have many wants A state will be more efficient when People can focus on their main trade without also having to worry about other trades People have an occupation that is suited to their natural abilities The state must have more than a few individuals for this efficiency to be achieved Production of Food for example requires not just farmers but people to make and repair the various tools that a farmer needs to grow crops Import and export of goods demand merchants salespeople and the makings of a general marketplace A life of luxury Socrates starts to describe the life of the people in the state they are building up Reed mats to dine upon Salt for their food Figs and beans for dessert Beds of leaves to rest on Acorns to roast at the fire Drinking in moderation Glaucon s response That sounds awful They need sofas and tables actual desserts and sauces for their otherwise boring suppers Socrates response so we re aiming for a luxurious state then To have a state that contains more than the necessities we need to expand its borders An increased population requires an increased amount of land needed to sustain War arises from the desire to have more everyone War is the result The Guardians state Now that war is inevitable there needs to be some group who can protect the state Remember our division of labor this group needs to be dedicated solely to protecting the The guardians require both natural talent as well as considerable training and skill to be effective The stakes are high when it comes to this group performing well Because the guardians require considerable training both mental and physical we must Educations of the Guardians be concerned with their upbringing Require 2 kinds of education Gymnastic education Musical education not like piano lessons Musical education includes What kind of stories will we tell our young guardians and what will they learn from these stories Only approved stories can exist in the state no stories with unscrupulous heroes or that make bad behavior seem appealing in any way