Raye Anne Nelson Plato s Lysis Active Reading Assignment pages 79 96 Notes Menexenus always tries to win arguments apparently pg 79 211b Socrates tells Menexenus that when he was little he dreamed of having a good friend rather than a dog or a horse although he compares the friendship that he desires to have a dog and a horse pg 79 211e Please tell me then when a person is fond of another person who is whose friend Menexenus changes his mind At first he said that two people were friends as long as one of them loves the other but now he s saying that two people are friends if both of them love each other pgs 80 81 212d e The one who is loved is the friend pg 81 213a A lot of people are friends to their enemies and enemies to their friends by this logic pg 80 212a pg 80 213b It was the gods themselves who made people friends with one another pg 83 214a Lysis and Socrates discussed which men could be friends and decided that it wasn t right for criminals and other bad men to be friends with one another because they would eventually end up hating each other But good men were allowed to be friends because they were nice to one another pgs 83 84 214c e Good men couldn t be friends with one another because if they were equally alike then one of the men would not benefit the other therefore he would not be valued or loved pg 84 214e 215b Socrates then remembers something his friend told him where like are usually not attracted to like opposites attract and that people who were different were more likely to become friends with one another pg 85 215d e Then something with the same nature as that which is neither good nor bad will not be the friend of that which is neither good or bad pg 87 216e Finally Socrates Lysis and Menexenus came up with the true meaning of friendship in every sphere in the body and the soul and so on it s what s neither bad nor good that is a friend of the good because of the presence of badness pg 89 218c And then they realized it wasn t good They then argue that friendships are made to where the only lovable thing about them is the goal that each person is setting out to achieve in the end pg 92 220b Menexenus and Lysis later agreed that if you re friends with somebody it was because you were naturally close to them in a way and you desired what you lacked pg 95 2213 Tie Ins Raye Anne Nelson The problem they re facing about deciding what friendship really is can relate to our class discussion about what the definition of courage really is Everyone has their own opinions and thoughts on it but it s hard to put a set in stone definition to the term This relates to the first reading we did where Socrates went out to search for what true wisdom really was And how he believed that he knew nothing He wanted people to form their own ideas and opinions much like they are when discussing friendship however he continues to make them second guess themselves Much like with most of Socrates ponderings he was yet to come up with a solid answer to his question At the end of the selection he was forced to come to a standstill because they had seemed to make a complete circle in their thoughts and could never come up with a definite answer This is very similar to most of the concepts and questions that Socrates forms because Plato never seems to give the answer from Socrates teachings and leaves us all dumbfounded Questions Were some of their arguments more logical than others Why does Socrates keep getting one opinion from someone and then twisting it around to where they don t even agree with it anymore Could their discussion about love and hate relate to the way teenager s bond over gossip and drama