Spcm 201 1st Edition Lecture 6Current LecturePlato: Phaedrus  Move behind Plato (Phaedrus writing) 17yrs have passed since writing Gorgias  Plato is older (60)—more mature  His views on rhetoric have evolved  He allows rhetoric to be taught  The Phaedrus is among his “late” work  Pro-Rhetoric Characters At a party Socrates: the voice of Plato  Phaedrus: a young student of Socrates who is considering who he wants to be his mentor as he learns about teaching  Lysias: a great Sophistic rhetor whom Phaedrus sees earlier in the day Is there something Queer going on in Athens?  Yes…sorta Part of Ancient Greece had a cultural tradition of pederasty A loving relationship between an older man (teacher) and a younger man (student)  Strict sexual guidelines…but much more than that The foundation of many powerful, life-long alliances Why does this text matter? Text is about LOVE!  The lover or the non-lover What is better to have with your teacher? Structure of the text There are four major parts (1) Lysias’ speech [read by Phaedrus]  (2) Socrates’ First Speech (3) Socrates’ Second Speech  (4) Wider discussion about rhetoric and writing From the beginning Start? Socrates encounters Phaedrus who is very excited to share speech he heard earlier They take a stroll outside the city walls and settle under a tree hear a river Meanwhile, Socrates is putting the moves on Phaedrus - “What’s under your cloak?” Lysias’ Speech (Phaedrus) Why is the non-lover best? Loyalty lasts only as long as love Lovers are “insane”  You have a greater pool of options Lovers are quick to anger People will gossip Lovers will tell you you’ve great even when you suck Socrates to Lysias Speech  Pokes fun at Lysias A little jealous He says he could do the speech better then Lysias He plays coy to Phaedrus’ demands Phaedrus gets angry and souls he’ll never talk to him again  Socrates gives in  How does Socrates’ 1st speech Non-lover  Not that profoundly… Defines the two ruling principles of human beings  The drive for pleasure The drive for the best  When pleasure overrides our best we get LOVE!  Why not to select the lover… Lovers keep the beloved weak and isolated  Lovers cultivated unmasculine men Insulting—become a women Lovers tend to keep the beloved deprived of properly and relations  Age differences pose many difficulties  Love is hostile when it’s overMiddle Text Socrates changes his mind Why does he alter is view in favor of the lover? He recognizes he is speaking against the GODS- To speak against love is to speak against the GODS- LOVE is a gif form the GODS Who does Socrates blame?  Phaedrus  Moves he has been putting out there distracted him from the truth  Socrates comes up with a different speechWhy is the myth of the charioteer?  The myth of the charioteer A metaphor for the human soul  Two horses—one good, one bad Two horses representing our virtuous and base instincts/needs We aspire to heaven But crash - Good horse vs. bad horse  Our soul then jumps into human bodies  We seek out glimpses of that heavenly greatness on earth We have seen some of the heavens Where we land depicts how much we remember What does this have to do with choosing the lover or non-lover? Love vs. Lust  Lust  The desire of the base horse that does not bring us closers to the divine - Easily fulfilled by desire - It’s a fleeting desire - In the end, it harms the soul’s ability to grow Love The patient selfless desire of the virtuous horse- Takes time and attention - Springs from the best interest of the beloved- Is persistent and genuine - Provides blessing  Therefore, the LOVER is a better choice for a teacher Socrates turns to some final remarks Phaedrus claims Lysias will be ridiculed for “speech writing”  Socrates disagrees  “Then that is clear to all that writing speeches is not itself a disgrace.” It is abhorrent when done “disgracefully” or “badly”  What makes a good speech? An artful speech (Socrates/Plato) The speaker knows the truth  Speaking for “ass” instead of the “horse” Then rhetoric can become “all art which leads the soul by way of words”  Avoids “public opinion” and “probability”  Must define terms (clear thesis) Well organized  Excel in the “niceties of the art”  Work to improve the souls of the